
Pakistan’s former ISI Chief General Hamid Gul talks to ALEX JONES
Alex Jones: General, I need to — in the time left here because we’ve only got a few minutes left with you here — uh, maybe five minutes and then we’re going to break and I don’t want to keep you any longer — we can perhaps have you back in the future.
Specifically, though, we know his CIA control name was Tim Osman, we know he was the bagman for a lot of the Saudi money and the Israeli money going in, I know that was compartmentalized and separate from Pakistani intelligence, from what I’ve read from different perspectives and US intelligence.
So — so I believe you. My whole point here is — is that al-Qaeda — al-CIAda didn’t carry out the attacks of 9/11 as you yourself have said. His first interview said that he didn’t do it. Then they produced these computer-morphed videos and fake audios that have been checked. And the Intel Center, headed up by Rumsfeld’s former lieutenant, the private group was caught putting the same video layer in with the original video. So it’s been proven that they’re creating these fake videos.
Hamid Gul: There is no doubt about it, that this video which was put out in November by George Bush and — and said this was Osama bin-Laden and was high cheekboned like the mongoloid features, he wasn’t as tall as Osama bin-Laden was. And one could clearly make out that this was doctored, and had been created on purpose to justify the attack on Afghanistan.
I think there are many things which are going wrong are being done on the behest of the government by the CIA which are not correct. The CIA used to be good when they were working with us. But I don’t know what happened thereafter. I think it was overarching ambition.
Alex Jones: Well, sir —
Hamid Gul: — or it is the fear that America will lose it’s clout. Whatever is the reason. Or perhaps it is the Israeli fear that they are surrounded by a sea of hostile enemies, who could, if the Americans don’t, uh, now at this point in time, the don’t deliver a fatal blow to all their enemies, then Israel will have a short shelf life, otherwise also because it is an artificial state, that they would, uh, probably not exist, or they would —
Palestine Issue never touched by US because of Israel
Alex Jones: General —
Hamid Gul: — have — fi —
Alex Jones: General: as you know, in the time we have left, they have over four hundred nukes, they have total dominance, no one could attack them with nukes, they have the anti-missile defense systems. I believe it’s a red herring that they want to start World War III, uh, for their “safety”. It’s World War III that will destroy Israel.
Hamid Gul: Yes, indeed, and I think this 2006 September experience, I think, if it is any indicator for them, when they —
Alex Jones: Hezbollah —
Hamid Gul: — went into southern Lebanon and they got such a buffeting at the hands of — of Hezbollah, I think they’ll not do something like that, because it would mean annihilation of Israel. And in any case Palestinian question is a very thorny question, and I do not know why the US administration is not addressing it differently —
Alex Jones: OK
Hamid Gul: — instead of these two different states there should be one Abrahamic state of Palestine.
Alex Jones: General!
Hamid Gul: Because all of the three religions which claim that they are divine religions they have been origined in Palestine, and I think that something new has been — has to be thought about.
Alex Jones: All right —
Hamid Gul: But unfortunately Bush administration in its very [?????????] it said that they would sort out this Palestinian issue by creating two states. After eight years we have gotten nowhere at all!
Alex Jones: All right General, we’re almost out of time, two final questions, and I’m gonna let you go, and you can — any websites, any books, any materials you’d like to point people at to see your side of the story, we’d love to see it. Two questions, let me give ‘em both to you and then answer them, please:
#1 — why are they trying to, now, list you as a terrorist, (A), when they admittedly worked with you (B) why do they always betray people like Saddam who they worked with and set up.
So (A) why are they trying to set you up, and (B) do you see the West staging more terror?
Hamid Gul: Yes, of — I think they are simply afraid of me because I worked with them, I understand them, I can measure them up and I talk loudly about it, I mak — mince no words, I pil — pull no punches, and they are afraid that I preempt whatever scheming they do. And I am — loud-voiced, there is no doubt about it. And I speak the truth, they are trying to frame me, there is no truth in it. If they had anything about me when I applied for a renewal of my VISA to America why did they not give it to me? Because if they have something, they are looking around for terrorists, while this terrorist wants to come over and visit America, nab me, interrogate me, take me to bar, take me to court, do whatever you like. It only shows that they have a mala fide.
As far as Saddam is concerned, it is a habit, it is a very bad habit. They cultivate friends who become, like Pervez Musharraf, dictators, and then they make use of them, and then they turn upon them and then infect [?] the nation because of their policies.
And, what was the last part of your question?
Alex Jones: All right, I’m gonna do a s —
Hamid Gul: was it in India/Pakistan relations?
Alex Jones: Sir, hold on one moment, General. John —
Hamid Gul: Ju —
Alex Jones: Ge — hold on, General — uh, General, hold on one moment because we’ve only got a few minutes left. John, skip this network break. For stations: I’m skipping, ’cause I’me gonna let him go in three minutes. I don’t want to hold him any longer, but I’m skipping this break, because this is too newsworthy.
Yes sir, I’d like you to answer that question, uh, about what do you think, knowing them, working with the globalists, the New World Order, in the past, when it was still America, before we were totally dominated, what do you think their next moves are probably — uh, most probable, (A).
False Mujahideen created to destabilize Pakistan
And then, finally, the attacks against the government in Pakistan, uh, using Muslim fronts. Does that appear to be the West trying to destabilize your government? They keep trying to kill the government, they killed Bhutto, they keep bombing government buildings, they keep bombing hotels, it appears the West is using false mujahideen to try to overthrow Pakistan.
Hamid Gul: No, Benazir was not killed by any of the terrorists. She was removed by the Americans, because she had violated her agreement, because they wanted to keep Pervez Musharraf there, and he slapped another [mustel???] on Pakistan. So she had become rebellious, and such a person, who is a popular leader of a third world country, the head of the largest political party, a woman whom they could not attack as fundamentalist because she was so westernized, therefore it was very important for them to remove her, because they have a mischievous plan which they want to put through.
So, they have installed instead Mr. Zardari, whom they can blackmail very easily, but they have allowed him to keep the powers of a dictator. And in fact he’s the one who’s calling all the shots in Pakistan, so as Pakistan is already completely destabilized politically.
Our po — um, uh be — judicial institution simply does not exist, because the judicial crisis recently dethroned Chief Justice of Pakistan —
Alex Jones: Yes — who is staging the terror attacks, because they’re clearly aimed at the government, or is that the government staging them as a pretext to crack down —
Neocons want to punish Pakistan coz Pak Army and ISI are a hindrance to ‘their’ war on terror
Hamid Gul: No, no, no — this is because it — [Lombostit???] was attacked, and I think that George Bush addressed his nation on radio immediately after that, said “this was part of our plan in War Against Terrorism”, because Pakistan army and Inter Services Intelligence were not fully cooperating, and because they did not consider it was their war, therefore they created this situation, where the terrorists out of sheer revenge — this is called Pakhtunwali. This is a tradition which has nothing to do with Islam. It is the Afghans holding to this tradition long before they became Muslim, and they are still carrying it on. When you take action against an Afghan, kill his daughter or his wife or his sister, he will take revenge no doubt what happens. He does not behave like a Muslim, or any other entity.
So this was a thing which was created. And of course Pakistan is now in a very difficult position. We only have a military which can control the institutions. And we have an ISI, but the Americans are almost every day attacking the ISI and attacking the military, saying this is not under the control of the political parties.
Alex Jones: Sir —
Hamid Gul: political powers.
Alex Jones: Sir — General —
Hamid Gul: But what is political power, when Parliament is sinecure? It does not work, it has no authority at all.
Alex Jones: General, going back to 9/11, Pakistani papers, BBC reported, New York Times reported, $100,000 was reportedly wired by Gen. Mahmood Ahmed, the head of Pakistani intelligence to the lead hijacker, who we know was a US government decoy, trained at US bases, that’s Newsweek, AP, Reuters. General Mahmood Ahmed, do you believe he was really controlled by the CIA, did he wire $100,000 to Mohammed Atta?
Hamid Gul: Not at all. Mahmood is a friend of mine. I met him very recently in Lahore, and he categorically denies this. I think this is all disinformation, which has been adopted as a very sophisticated intelligence art.
In 5000 years nobody ever won a war in Afghanistan & Pashtunwali is a code of even before Islam
Alex Jones: So, just to be clear, we’re gonna let you go, we’re very thankful and respectful of your time, uh, you believe that the bombings and shootings and terror attacks that we’ve seen in the last few months in Pakistan are because the Predator drones and helicopters are killing weddings — you always notice it’s a wedding — that’s meant to stir up the people there, because it kills whole families, it’s a huge insult, and then of course they blow up NATO cars, of course they then attack the government. Is that what you’re saying?
Hamid Gul: It is retaliatory, and they will retaliate. I can tell you that Afghanistan nation is a fact that over 5,000 years, nobody has won against them, and I think that Americans cannot win, unless American intention is to stir up a Third World War at this point I think there’s no point in staying in Afghanistan. You should negotiate with the opposition. This is a national resistance now. It is no longer Taleban. Specific, it is the Afghan nation.
I approve of their position. They are resisting ferociously.
Alex Jones: General, how long can the Mayor of Kabul stay in power, and isn’t this really just about the West controlling the opium?
Hamid Gul: Well, he’s the puppet of Kabul, and he will not stay very long. I can assure you that, eh, he’s already started showing signs of nervousness. He wants to reach out to the Taleban, but Taleban won’t — eh, even throw a crumb at him. I can assure you the Taleban, or, any other resistance fighters, they will have nothing to do with —
Alex Jones: Well, Reuters is reporting, as you know, every major city is now encircled, and only a few cities are controlled by the US force.
Hamid Gul: I — I have no idea, but I think the Right is started coming out, like Robert Kagan’s article in the Washington Post on December 2nd, it, eh, echoes what is the [CFR] World At Risk Report. Uh, it is similar. They are focusing on Pakistan, because Pakistan’s nuclear capability is undigestible by State of Israel, and by India, therefore there is —
Alex Jones: All right —
Hamid Gul: every possibility that Pakistan becomes a target.
Alex Jones: In closing — in closing, and this is it, and we appreciate all your time — this hour’s over, two minutes, sir, I know you can’t predict the future, but do you see them staging a nuke attack? Do you see them staging more terror attacks? Do you see India sneak attacking? Uh, do you see a more radical government coming in after the staged events? What do you see happening, bad case scenario?
Hamid Gul: No, Indians are not so stupid. I think they are seeing thru the game, and these far Leftist parties, that is the Left Front, they are called, the Communist party of India, are very strong. India is slowly turning t’the world of its own problems. The Shine India, Shining India, Feel-good India, this is all make believe. I can tell you that this is a propaganda hype. I can tell you that India is in a miserable state. Their economy is dwindling. And four hundred millions are living on less that one dollar a day.
And this is beginning to have an effect because last year alone 108,000 farmers in India committed suicide. And this will not go on. Out of 608 districts in India, 231 are already in turmoil, and mostly under the control of Maoists and the Bhakti-lite.
Alex Jones: So they are collapsing?
Hamid Gul: Yes. So India itself has lots of problems of their own.
Alex Jones: You’re right. The GMO cotton made ‘em commit suicide, cause it destroyed their lives.
Well, General, General Hamid Gul, thank you so much for joining us. Any websites, any books, any materials you think people should read to learn more?
Hamid Gul: Thank you.
Alex Jones: Uh, any websites, any books, any materials you think people should read to learn more?
Hamid Gul: Oh, I don’t have a website, unfortunately, but I think you have a website. You can read all my talk.
Alex Jones: Absolutely. We’ll post the audio and a transcript at InfoWars.com. Let me say bye to you, as this hour ends, as we go to break, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we’ll be back with the second hour. Again I want to thank Gen. Hamid Gul. Uh, an amazing exclusive, folks, unedited live.
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Can’t Win in Afghanistan, Blame Pakistan
As resistance to the US-led occupation of Afghanistan has intensified, the increasingly frustrated Bush administration is venting its anger against Pakistan and its military intelligence agency, the ISI.
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CAN’T WIN IN AFGHANISTAN, BLAME PAKISTAN
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VIOLENCE & UPRISINGS IN FATA NOT CAUSED BY “TERRORISM” BUT OUT FALL OF THE US-LED OCCUPATION OF AFGHANISTAN
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by Eric Margolis
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Soon after the US invaded Afghanistan and overthrew the Taliban government in 2001, I predicted that Taliban resistance would resume in four years.
My fellow pundits, who were cock-a-hoop over the US military victory over a bunch of lightly-armed medieval tribesmen, became drunk on old-fashioned imperial triumphalism, and denounced me as “crazy,” or worse. But most of them had never been to Afghanistan and knew nothing about the Pashtun tribal people. I had covered the struggle against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan during the 1980′s and was well aware of the leisurely pace of warfare favored by Pashtun warriors.
“Do not stay in Afghanistan,” I warned in a 2001 article in the Los Angeles Times. The longer foreign forces remained in Afghanistan, the more the tribes would fight against their continued presence. Taliban resumed fighting in 2005.
Now, as resistance to the US-led occupation of Afghanistan has intensified, the increasingly frustrated Bush administration is venting its anger against Pakistan and its military intelligence agency, Inter-Service Intelligence, better known as ISI.
The White House just leaked claims ISI is in cahoots with pro-Taliban groups in Pakistan’s tribal agency along the Afghan border and warns them of impending US attacks. The New York Times, which allowed the Bush administration to use it as a mouthpiece for Iraq War propaganda, dutifully featured the leaks about ISI on front page. Other administration officials have been claiming that ISI may even be hiding Osama bin Laden and other senior al-Qaida leaders.
The Bush administration claims that CIA had electronic intercepts proving ISI was behind the bombing of India’s embassy in Kabul. India and Afghanistan echoed this charge. No hard evidence though was ever produced, but the US media has been lustily condemning Pakistan for pretending to be an ally of the US while acting like an enemy.
During a visit to the US by Pakistan’s newly elected Prime Minister, President George Bush angrily asked, Yousuf Gilani, “who’s in charge of ISI?” An interesting question, since all recent ISI director generals have been vetted and pre-approved by Washington.
I was one of the first western journalists invited into ISI HQ in 1986. ISI’s then director general, the fierce Lt. General Akhtar Abdul Rahman, personally briefed me on Pakistan’s secret role in fighting Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. ISI’s “boys” provided communications, logistics, training, heavy weapons, and direction in the Afghan War. I kept ISI’s role in Afghanistan a secret until the war ended in 1989.
ISI was primarily responsible for the victory over the Soviets, which hastened the collapse of the USSR. At war’s end, Gen. Akhtar and Pakistan’s leader, Zia ul Haq, both died in a sabotaged C-130 transport aircraft. Unfortunately, most Pakistanis blame the United States for this assassination, though the real malefactors have never been identified and the investigation long ago shelved.
On my subsequent trips to Pakistan I was routinely briefed by succeeding ISI chiefs, and joined ISI officers in the field, sometimes under fire.
ISI, which reports to Pakistan’s military and the prime minister, is accused of meddling in Pakistani politics. The late Benazir Bhutto, who often was thwarted and vexed by Pakistan’s spooks, always playfully scolded me, “you and your beloved generals at ISI.”
But before Gen. Pervez Musharraf took over as military dictator, ISI was the third world’s most efficient, professional intelligence agency. It still defends Pakistan against internal and external subversion by India’s powerful spy agency, RAW, and by Iran. ISI works closely with CIA and the Pentagon and was primarily responsible for the rapid ouster of Taliban from power in 2001. But ISI also must serve Pakistan’s interests which are often not identical to Washington’s, and sometimes in conflict.
ISI was long and deeply involved in supporting the uprising by Kashmiri Muslims against Indian rule, and has been accused by India of abetting groups that have committed bombings and aircraft hijackings inside India, including a wave of terrorist bombings against civilians in Bangalore and Gujarat over recently weeks. For its part, India’s powerful intelligence service, RAW, has mounted bombing and shooting attacks inside Pakistan.
The reason it is often difficult to tell whether Pakistan is friend or foe is because Washington has been forcing Pakistan’s government, military and intelligence services into supporting the US-led war in Afghanistan and in the past, in rounding up and torturing opponents of Pakistan’s military dictatorship. Pakistan was forced to bend to Washington’s will through a combination of over $11 billion in payments and threats of war if Pakistan did not comply. The ongoing prosecution of the US-led war in Afghanistan depends entirely on Pakistan’s provision of bases and troops.
While Pakistan’s government, military and intelligence services were forced to follow Washington’s strategic plans, 90% of Pakistan’s people bitterly oppose these policies. President-dictator Musharraf was caught between the anger of Washington and his own angry people who branded him an American stooge.
Small wonder Pakistan’s leadership is so often accused of playing a double game.
The last ISI Director General I knew was the tough, highly capable Lt. Gen. Mahmood Ahmad. He was purged by Musharraf because Washington felt Mahmood was insufficiently responsive to US interests. Ever since 2001, ensuing ISI directors were all pre-approved by Washington. All senior ISI veterans deemed “Islamist” or too nationalistic by Washington were purged at Washington’s demand, leaving ISI’s upper ranks top-heavy with too many yes-men and paper-passers.
Even so, there is strong opposition inside ISI and the military to Washington’s bribing and arm-twisting the subservient Musharraf dictatorship into waging war against fellow Pakistanis and gravely damaging Pakistan’s national interests. After coming of the new civilian set up under Mr. Zardari as the new President, and Mr. Gilani, the prime minister, for most of the Pakistanis Pakistani people, there seems to be hardly any change in this policy.
ISI’s primary duty is defending Pakistan, not promote US interests. Pashtun tribesmen on the border sympathizing with their fellow Taliban Pashtun in Afghanistan are Pakistanis. Many, like the legendary Jalaluddin Haqqani, are old US allies and “freedom fighters” from the 1980′s. When the US and its western allies finally abandon Afghanistan, as they will inevitably do one day, Pakistan must go on living with its rambunctious tribals.
Violence and uprisings in these tribal areas are not caused by “terrorism,” as Washington and Musharraf falsely claimed. They directly result from the US-led occupation of Afghanistan and Washington’s forcing the regimes to attack theirown people.
ISI is trying to restrain pro-Taliban Pashtun tribesmen while dealing with growing US attacks into Pakistan that threaten a wider war. India, Pakistan’s bitter foe, has an army of agents in Afghanistan and is arming, backing and financing the Karzai puppet regime in Kabul in hopes of turning Afghanistan into a protectorate. Pakistan’s historic strategic interests in Afghanistan have been undermined by the US occupation. Now, the US and India are trying to eliminate Pakistani influence in Afghanistan.
Washington’s bull-in-a-china shop behavior pays no heeds to these realities. Instead, Washington demonizes faithful old allies ISI and Pakistan while supporting Afghanistan’s Communists and drug dealers, and allowing India to stir the Afghan pot – all for the sake of new energy pipelines.
As Henry Kissinger cynically noted, being America’s ally is more dangerous than being its enemy.
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Eric Margolis, contributing foreign editor for Sun National Media Canada, is the author of War at the Top of the World.. Copyright © 2008 Eric Margolis
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on September 14, 2008 at 5:48 pm Comments (10)Tags: Al-Qaeda, Eric Margolis, ISI of Pakistan, Pakistan, the frontline state, The Taliban, US Foreign Policy, War on Terror